Curse

Longasc · Aug 12, 2007, 04:23 PM // 16:23

It has become Grind Wars indeed. I agree to the first three postings.

GWEN will expand this system even more: Now not only favor is tied to title grind, the Hall of Grind will also allow you to display your grind achievements in GW2. Plus new titles to grind for, probably char based so that you can grind even more.

This time they seem to have more effect on gameplay though. We can only hope that these skills also scale very flat.

But this is new to GW: Time played/grinded gives you extra skills and higher attributes in those skills for playing the game.

So far we have the mentioned flat scaling of these skills, but I fear the worst and the general idea is no longer true to the grind-free nature that GW was once marketed for.

If this trend continues, why not play another MMO and grind for Aldor or Scryer Faction? We are going to become the light version of typical grinder MMOs, and I am one of the people who did not play the alternatives to GW for this very reason. :/

But people are asking for grind, and they get it. Ouch.

MithranArkanere · Aug 12, 2007, 04:23 PM // 16:23

The most 'necessary' titles are quite fast to get: Sunspear and Lightbringer.

Just go to a Port Town and you'll see they are maxed quite frecuantly.
Most of the Kurcick/luxon ones are quite effective even qith rank 1, and rank 1 is really easily attainable: Just by gathering and giving 25000 faction.

There are people that finished Prophecies without the 30 quest attribute points...

People can make many things without getting stuff... getting stuff just makes them easier.

Omniclasm · Aug 12, 2007, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Right now, I don't see much of a problem with skills being tied to gameplay. What *does* bother me is how it's the largest piece of endgame we got.

Agreed, thats why I'm taking a break and playing D2 until GWEN comes out.

Buster · Aug 12, 2007, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Ok As much as i hate title grinding you have to look at why in my opinion this is good for the game for now atleast. Guild Wars pve lacks depth compared to many mmo games that are on the market today.We don't have a persisent world yet, we don't have crafting and we can't advance our characters over level 20 yet either. So titles in my opinion is the best route to go fow now until GW2 gets here.

We also are getting GW:EN very shortly so we will have alot to do soon. I might just grab me some titles just to keep busy until GW2. The only thing I wish is for Anet to lighten up on the loot scaling thing, granted we do have hard mode but I think people would stay more interested inthe game if they knew they could farm with a higher rate of success of getting stuff they wanted.

Lord Feathers · Aug 12, 2007, 04:42 PM // 16:42

More whining !

No matter what they do there will be someone who will pronounce the latest change bad, say they're leaving the game or proclaim guild wars dead !

sythmoi · Aug 12, 2007, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Point of the matter is did they change something that aint broke.... and they keep doing that....to promote more game play...YES you are loosing poeple playing the game it happens... I,m surely not going to play more for favour....what does it do?

In my stupid humble opinion is that they keep changing stuff to fit into this nice perfect balanced world economy....hence loot scaling, farm grinding, title grinding etc etc etc.... Hey Ill grind..... I just dont want to sit here 10 years trying to get a GLAD point or sweet tooth cus i can only get creme bru stuff twice a year...

It aint a perfect world in real life, there will allways be people woth more gold better weapons and bots... YES its a game, please keep it that way...

W.O.W here we come its been mentioned again and again.

In my guild we have lost many players moving to other games...just cuz they sick of all, what we percieve, as stupid sensless changes..its a GAME I wanna be a millionare.... plz stop using us as pawns and make us all do the same thing at the same time, I aint no puppet either, I dont want to GMC for favour, we dont want to be part of a world created by GAWD ANet..we wanna play a game... not play a fancy smancy economy puppet ANet game...

PS do something about your LAG, and stop telling me its my connection...SORRY I cant plug into yout Frakfurt server to not have LAG...
DIAL UP FTW...

Hey I feel better now.....

:P

reddswitch · Aug 12, 2007, 06:12 PM // 18:12

This isn't just about the latest change. It's people noticing the trend anet is taking and continuing into the future. It started long ago and I don't see how you can not notice it. Anet has to support grinding, there's less reasons to stick around now anyway. Grinders will stick around cause there's titles to fulfill. It has turned away players already but all you hear are rabid fanboys since people who left aren't around to comment.

Some people need to step out of their bubbles to notice how titles do affect gameplay. Anet may not have intended it but they're doing nothing to dissuade it. Since they're the ones to put titles in in the first place it's their doing.

Issac · Aug 12, 2007, 06:18 PM // 18:18

titles just give people something to do so they don't quit the game or something. Thats pretty much why I'm getting the titles. Some of the are kind of fun to get like the protector ones. And all my guild mates think im so cool with the titles, so they look up to me in some way haha.

Clone · Aug 12, 2007, 06:24 PM // 18:24

I also thing one of the problems here is what people perceive as an achievement. Beating a quest or killing a once is an achievement. If you kill the same boss or do the same quest 100 times over doesn't make it any more difficult than the first time you did it. After the first run, its all just mindless repetition. Why give people a fresh challenge when you can convince some poor rube that doing the same thing 100 times over is an achievement?

dargon · Aug 12, 2007, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

Besides, many many guilds will turn you down, unless you have the correct rank. Have you never played PvP?

IMO, any guild that does that is full of elitist BS and isn't worth the time of day to join. I don't join a guild to hang out with a group of guys showing of their e-peen, I join a guild to hang out with people who are their to have fun.

Quru · Aug 12, 2007, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

It's never been Guild Wars. Mostly Build Wars, now Title Wars.

I liked Build Wars. Title Wars is ok, but the favor system is very annoying. (When I have new build to test, we don't have favor. When I don't have money to test build, we have favor. Yes, I'm European, hell yeah. I think this is good update for americans and other, but this sucks hard for me.)

Bouldershoulder · Aug 12, 2007, 06:36 PM // 18:36

This New Favor System also doesn't make much sense, lore-Wise. I mean, so someone can get to a million experience points without dying...so what? At least the holding the HoH thing made sense. It was tied to skill, and not grind. This new idea must've been thought up in five minutes or something.

hallomik · Aug 12, 2007, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

That was probably ironic.
What I meant was:
Most of the things in-game are optional, you really don't need them to "complete the game" (maybe lacking a definition, Im would assume beating all missions and doing all quests, normal mode?). Titles should not give actual benefits, unless they are easy to get, which again somewhat (but not fully) ruins the idea of the titles.

Edit: Maybe you weren't ironic after all, sorry.

I was being ironic, but you took it well and gave a civil response. Sorry to come off that way.

I do agree with the principle that hard-to-get titles should not give balance-altering abilities to players. To the degree that the SS, LB, and Faction based titles do so, I agree that's not a good direction for the game to go.

That being said, I don't think any of those titles are either that hard to get or so hard to get that the more casual player is disadvantaged. In other MMO's, more time invested can beat skill. That is really still not close to being the case in Guild Wars. Also, the SS & Factions skills can't be even used in PVP. That keeps the game even where competition matters most.

After you've beaten the PVE game on every character in every campaign and you've grown tired of PVP, what's left? Titles give some players something to shoot for who want to keep playing. Titles aren't my thing, but I just can't get that concerned about them.

Malice Black · Aug 12, 2007, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Don't have any titles, don't plan on getting any titles, don't really care and if people don't like that **** them.

Government Flu · Aug 12, 2007, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Titles are options. If you want to be competitive, then you'll need to get better titles. If you don't care, then you can enjoy the game in other ways. Me, I personally think Guild Wars was originally called "Gold Sink Wars."

Loviatar · Aug 12, 2007, 06:58 PM // 18:58

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by reddswitch

This isn't just about the latest change. It's people noticing the trend anet is taking and continuing into the future. It started long ago and I don't see how you can not notice it. Anet has to support grinding, there's less reasons to stick around now anyway.

the actual turning point in my opinion was a jeff strain interview a few months before PVP ORIENTED FACTIONS came out.

jeff strain made a one line comment that *he and the rest of the team were surprised at how many PVE players were sticking with the PVE content rather than making the expected transition to PVP*

they are giving the main player base what it is asking for and hardcore splinter groups have been leaving from the very start anyway

UAS OR WE GO
MORE LEVELS OR WE GO
MORE UBER POWERFUL LOOT OR WE GO
AND MANY MORE

Quote:

Grinders will stick around cause there's titles to fulfill. It has turned away players already but all you hear are rabid fanboys since people who left aren't around to comment.

see above groups as examples who hated the original GW that the present people want back

hallomik · Aug 12, 2007, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quru

I liked Build Wars. Title Wars is ok, but the favor system is very annoying. (When I have new build to test, we don't have favor. When I don't have money to test build, we have favor. Yes, I'm European, hell yeah. I think this is good update for americans and other, but this sucks hard for me.)

QFH (Quoted for Honesty)

I play on the American districts, so I'm happy for the change. I totally understand why you would not be happy, and kudos for being straight about your reasons.

I think a lot of people are making the argument that titles are ruining the game, when the reality is they're understandably a bit torqued off about losing near-constant favor.

Martin Alvito · Aug 12, 2007, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Honestly, the title system as initially implemented was a healthy concept for the game. It gave goal-oriented PvE-ers things to shoot for and reasons to come back above and beyond trying to make their characters look the way they wanted.

Tying skill functionality (in PvE, anyway) to titles is NOT a healthy concept. It compels people to do things that they don't want to do in order to have maximum effectiveness; this isn't a good thing.

As it stands it's not out of control; it's possible that it will become out of control with the expansion. All we can do is hope that it doesn't.

Deleet · Aug 12, 2007, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by dargon

IMO, any guild that does that is full of elitist BS and isn't worth the time of day to join. I don't join a guild to hang out with a group of guys showing of their e-peen, I join a guild to hang out with people who are their to have fun.

I have the opposite opinom, I seek guilds which are better than me, so I can learn. Most of my, now ex, guildmates were 2-3 or more ranks above me. One should not forgot, that players with high ranks, usually (not always) are better players than those without. Experience is key.

Gebo · Aug 12, 2007, 07:49 PM // 19:49

[QUOTE=Loviatar]

Quote:

the actual turning point in my opinion was a jeff strain interview a few months before PVP ORIENTED FACTIONS came out.

jeff strain made a one line comment that *he and the rest of the team were surprised at how many PVE players were sticking with the PVE content rather than making the expected transition to PVP*

they are giving the main player base what it is asking for and hardcore splinter groups have been leaving from the very start anyway

UAS OR WE GO
MORE LEVELS OR WE GO
MORE UBER POWERFUL LOOT OR WE GO
AND MANY MORE

see above groups as examples who hated the original GW that the present people want back

add on...
NERF PARAGONS OR WE GO
NERF SOUL REAPING OR WE GO
CHANGE HA BACK TO 8v8 OR WE.. well... spam the HA outpost....
NERF RITUALISTS OR WE GO

...oh wait... nevermind... they did get their way >.<

I'm waiting for the NERF THE SERVERS OR WE GO, to be quite honest lol, wouldn't surprise me really.